Cattle prices swing, goat prices swing, and the drought comes whether or not the ranch can afford it. For a fifth-generation West Texas operation, the search for income that holds steady through all of it comes from an unexpected source: the wind.
A wind lease pays the same in a dry year as a wet one, creating a floor under an operation otherwise exposed to weather and commodity prices. When neighbors saw the turbines going up, the reaction was not opposition. It was a question about how to get their own.
On this week’s Energy Capital Podcast, Joshua Rhodes talks with John E. Davis, a fifth-generation rancher and former Texas state representative who chaired the House Economic and Small Business Development Committee. They talk about the seven turbines Davis hosts from the Cactus Flats project in Concho County. Davis, a conservative Republican, argues that a landowner’s right to host wind or solar is the conservative position, and the politics of renewables have drifted from the economics that drive rural Texas.
Davis says the income is what allows the ranch to keep producing food and fiber, and he calls it “a lifeline for us.”
In the episode, Rhodes and Davis get into:
The property rights argument, why Davis reads hosting wind or solar as a conservative right, not a Green New Deal one.
Behind-the-meter power and local storage, how rural West Texas could host data centers that bring their own generation, with batteries as community backup when the grid goes down.
The Queensland parallel, what a trip to rural Australia showed him about moving power from where it’s generated to where people live
How Texas resolves the gap between the power it wants and the wind it is slowing will shape what rural landowners can build and what keeps their ranches running.
Timestamps
00:00 – Introduction
02:48 – How Wind Came to the Ranch
06:20 – The Jane Davis Check
08:35 – Running Sheep and Goats Under the Turbines
09:43 – What Landowners Should Know Going In
11:44 – What Changed After the Build
13:31 – Sheep Royalty and the Committee Chair
14:39 – Neighbors, Suburbia, and the Politics
16:13 – The Queensland Parallel
21:23 – Data Centers, Behind-the-Meter Power, and Storage
24:37 – A Recovering Politician's Views
27:09 – The AI Race and Stopping Wind
31:12 – The Elon Musk Story
36:05 – The Menard Station Buildout
Resources
People & Organizations
Joshua Rhodes (LinkedIn)
John E. Davis, fifth-generation rancher and former Texas State Representative (HD-129), former chair of the House Economic and Small Business Development Committee
Joe Straus, former Speaker of the Texas House (Texas Legislature)
Energy Capital (LinkedIn - Spotify - Apple Podcasts)
Company & Industry News
Cactus Flats Wind Facility, the 148 MW, 43-turbine project in Concho County where Davis hosts turbines. Developed and built by RES, sold to Southern Power (a Southern Company subsidiary) in 2017 (RES - Southern Power)
Johanna Wilhelm, the “Sheep Queen of Texas” and Davis’s great-great-grandmother, who ran a large Menard County sheep operation (Heritage Park San Angelo)
SpaceX, whose founder Elon Musk visited Davis’s committee during a 2013 SpaceX incentives bill (SpaceX)
The Menard station, Davis’s two-acre development on a former Exxon site (EV charging, a beer garden with Wagyu franks, a farm stand, and a book exchange), funded with wind income
Transcript
Joshua Rhodes: Hey everyone, and welcome to another episode of the Energy Capital Podcast. Today’s guest is John E. Davis, a fifth-generation Texan rancher and former member of the Texas House of Representatives. John represented House District 129 in the Houston Clear Lake area for about eight terms, serving from 1999 to 2015. During his time in the legislature, he chaired the House Economic and Small Business Development Committee and also served on the Energy Resources Committee, giving him really a front-row seat to many of the energy issues that are, you know, continue to face Texans today. After leaving public office, John devoted more time to ranching and land manage- land management out in West Texas. As a landowner, he’s had experience in hosting energy infrastructure such as wind turbines on his property and has talked to a lot of folks about how that has included additional sources of income while allowing traditional ranching operations to continue. Over the years, John has become an outspoken voice for private property rights and allowing Texans to decide for themselves whether or not to host energy infrastructure, and his unique perspective as a former lawmaker, rancher, and participant in the Texas energy economy makes him the ideal guest to sit here and talk to what’s happening out in rural Texas today. So John Davis, welcome to the Energy Capital Podcast.
John Davis: Dr. Josh Rhodes, I’m glad to be here and honored to be part of this podcast, and my first podcast ever.
Joshua Rhodes: Really? Your first podcast ever?
John Davis: No one wants to podcast me anymore now that I’m out of the legislature. They don’t care anymore. So now I’m glad someone wants to hear what I have to say.
Joshua Rhodes: Well, I feel like that will give you a little bit more, uh, liberty to say more things that’ll be a little more interesting, don’t you reckon?
John Davis: Absolutely. Absolutely. Especially in these days when, um, so many folks are anti-renewables in the administration that I’m a part of. I mean, being a conservative Republican, very supportive of our president and everything he does except for the attitude or tone towards renewable power. I don’t mean to jump into it if I want to, but just being a rancher just kind of hurt- hurts us. But the attitude that’s going on now, I say, “What are they thinking?” You know, they’re hurting rural Texas. But I’ll, I’ll let you ask the questions, and I’ll kind of get at a little frustration and disappointment on my part, so.
Joshua Rhodes: Yeah, no worries, and we’ll get there. I would love to chat about that. Yeah, but I wanted to start just, like, talking about your place out in West Texas, and it’s a beautiful place. You let me come out there once. I really appreciate that. And actually, I still have too much of that axis deer in my freezer. Maybe- Do you think maybe Jane Davis could give me some better recipes, some more recipes on what to do with it? ‘Cause I- I’m running out of ideas, and I’ve still got a whole bunch of it.
John Davis: But you know that axis, it’s really tender. It’s almost like a steak. You just kind of-
Joshua Rhodes: Oh ...
John Davis: slice up a lemon and cook it as a steak, and it’s good salt and pepper, and it’s quality meat, so you can’t go wrong with that.
Joshua Rhodes: That’s true. It is true. Tell us a little bit about your property and how wind energy first came to your place.
John Davis: Sure. It... Josh, I think it was back in probably 2016. My brother, Keith Davis, he’s out of San Angelo. He’s an attorney in San Angelo, and we have a place at the Concho County-Menard County line. And apparently Concho County had engaged with their school district for some abatements to attract a wind farm, and they approached us in 2016. We said, “No, we don’t want any of those ugly old wind turbines, you know, on our place.” Then about a year and a half later, they approached us again, and we said, about 2017, “No” again. And then a third time they approached us ‘cause they really needed us to be part of, uh, it’s called the Cactus Flats Project, and it was developed by RES. And that third time we talked it over and we said, “Yes, we’ll work with you.” And so they, uh, negotiated a contract, and what they did, RES actually paid my brother’s law firm there in San Angelo monies to negotiate a good contract. So they paid for about half or two-thirds to negotiate a contract, because if you don’t have a good contract, you don’t have a good fence, then you have a bad neighbor. So it was in their interest to make sure we had a good contract. So we, we have seven turbines out of, uh, 42 in the Cactus Flats project. And it... So actually the turbines started going up in 2018 and started generating revenue for us about 2019.
Joshua Rhodes: Got it. So it sounds like you weren’t too keen on the idea kinda from at the start there, but eventually you kinda worked it around. You know, said they needed your space to fill out the rest of that wind farm, but what was the kinda the final thing that pushed you over the edge there?
John Davis: Yeah, we were the final one. They needed us. And I know Keith, they did a good job negotiating some minimum royalty payments. Leave us for like 25 years, and it goes up incrementally every five years. It’s readjusted and goes up like 5 or 10%, something like that. I think, Josh, what turned it to us is that we have the ranch land there and we wanna make it productive. We want to be able to produce and to produce and b- basically just send money. Keith and I inherited that portion of the ranch from Dad, and Dad worked for Shell Oil, Shell Pipeline. He was a landman, attorney, and did right of way work and easements.
Joshua Rhodes: Hmm.
John Davis: And Dad was oil and gas. We thought, well, maybe, you know, he would want us to do that. So we talked to Dad about it. We said, “Dad, look, these guys are approaching us. It’s wind. I know you’re oil and gas and Shell,” and we’re pretty proud of that ‘cause that’s put all of us through college and took care... Oil and gas has been good to us, all of our families. I said, “But it’s this renewable power stuff, so what do you think?” And Dad kind of paused and he said, “Well, does it pay any money?” We said, “Yeah, yeah, it pays pretty darn good money.” He said, “Well, hell yeah, we’ll do it.” You know, so we said, “We wanna respect Dad and the land,” and, you know, we are fortunate to inherit that portion of- from the family. So he said yes, so we did it, and it’s just been a godsend because we have a lot of cactus, we have prickly pear, we have rattlesnakes, coyotes, mesquites, and it’s just hard to make a living, to generate revenue to be able to make it worthwhile. And plus my wife is always on my ass to say, “Why are you spending all that money on the ranch? You’re doing this, you’re doing that, and you need to be back in the city.” I said, “Well, hell, that’s my heritage. That’s my heritage, too.” And I said, “No, I enjoy it.” So now we are able to get some regular stable income because it gives me stability, because the price, the cattle market or sheep and goat market, it’s high now, but it can definitely go low. If it doesn’t rain, then you got more feed costs, and it costs money. Then you got fences. I have, like six, about eight guardian dogs that live out with my sheep and goats and protect them from the coyotes and the bobcats, and it’s just a constant work effort, but it started generating revenue. If I can tell this quick story, Jane, my wife, if it’s all right, she, uh, always wants to know, “Well, when do I get anything out of this deal? How’s it work? You’re always spending money at the ranch.” I said, “Well, honey, I found out,” ‘cause my wife and I, “You get half of the income.” And so we got the first check came in, and it was made out, ‘cause since we were married and that’s when it happened, so she gets half of it. But she knew it, it was my family, so she was being very kind and she offered that check back to me. She said, “John, it’s your family, so here it has my name on it, Jane Davis, and here’s the money, and sign it over to you or give it to you if you want.” I said, “Honey, what name is printed on that check?” She said, “Jane Davis.” I said, “Well, give to Jane Davis what is Jane Davis’s.” And so she made that deposit of that check, and she hasn’t offered it one time back to me. So every three months she gets an ACH payment straight in her checking account and she says, “Thank you very much.” And she said, “John, keep ranching.” So I can keep ranching. I can raise my goats, sheep, cows. I got some Wagyu cows. I have a lot of fun with it. But it’s work, but the money, the stable income makes it to where you can pay for your ranch hand, pay for your feed, you know, just repair the windmill, water trough bust. It’s just a constant... But again, I’m producing food with my Spanish goats and my Dorper lambs, uh, Wagyu beef. I have some Rambouillet sheep and some mohair, Angora goats. So I feel like I’m producing food and some fiber, and I think fuel. As I go back, it makes me feel even better that we’re providing energy. Maybe I’ll let you ask the questions, but I was just watching on Stuart Varney- ... about AI and the importance of data centers, the importance of power in rural Texas, and that got me excited. These are potential rural economic development tools for us, ‘cause we don’t have anything to develop. So, you know, I’ll shut up, let you ask the questions, but hopefully that answered what you were asking me.
Joshua Rhodes: No, no, for sure. And I love that. I love hearing that story about running into Jane Davis. What is Jane Davis’s... I’ve heard you say that a couple times. I love that story.
John Davis: It’s the truth. She can be bought off.
Joshua Rhodes: I’ll let you tell us if you want us to edit that part out. Well, you finally got to it there at the end there, but you originally were listing off all the things on your ranch that didn’t seem like they did very much in terms of you had coyotes and rattlesnakes and cactus and other types of things like that. And I guess, you know, it makes sense that the wind farm is called, you know, Cactus Flats, but you run sheep out there mostly, right? Like, that’s what you run out there in and amongst the wind farm, right?
John Davis: Yes. Sheep, goats, and cows. But the goats, I got about 200 nannies and 200 Dorper ewes and only about 30 cows. But the goats, I went to the market three weeks ago, Dr. Rhodes, and I got, I couldn’t believe it, $4.80 a pound. So for a 60-pound mutton little goat is like 280 bucks. I’ve never received that much. That’s a great thing. So the goats are actually providing more money than the sheep, but it’s about, they’re usually about half and half, Josh, on the sheep and the goats.
Joshua Rhodes: Yeah, back in East Texas, we only had, you know, cattle, so I was not as familiar with that, but that actually sounds pretty good in terms of, like, the per pound there, but it’s been a little bit. Well, so what do you wish other maybe landowners might have known? Is there anything you wish you would’ve known kinda going into this that you know now that would’ve helped out?
John Davis: It was new to us. Yeah. Keith and I really didn’t know much about it. I know Sweetwater had been doing a lot. They were up in that part of the world. Nolan County and others, I’d heard about it, that a lot of the other ranchers were doing it. And then we didn’t know much about it, but then as we delved into it, it just seemed like it made sense because, you know, the Lord gave us a lot of wind up here and a lot of sun. And if there’s any way we can harvested the wind before for water, for windmills to bring that water, bring it forth out of the earth, and we have now some wind that can turn and provide some income so we can keep ranching. And nothing really, I think the, the players were very responsible, the developer very upfront, professional. Again, paid for our, a lot of our attorney’s fees because they wanted to be successful. And it just, you know, wind and solar and even these batteries I think are just great, that provide so many opportunities for rural Texans, ‘cause there aren’t many economic development opportunities for us out there, Dr. Rhodes. There’s just not. And if we can combine that with producing our, you know, the regular commodities, the sheep and the goats and the food and fibers, it helps out. And we get income from deer hunters too. We have deer hunters who are at lease part of the land. Between my brothers and me, a little over 3,500 acres, we have deer hunters that pr- help provide some income for us too. So that’s good. But the steady, man, the steady eddy, that wind turns and generates that revenue for us. But there’s nothing really I would’ve, oh, I wish I knew this, I could’ve done something different. Not really. So it’s been positive.
Joshua Rhodes: Well, that’s good. So once the project got built, did anything change in, like, the day-to-day operations or what may have changed or, you know, what didn’t? Did any of the farm-
John Davis: Only thing that changed is I could get across... I used to take, it’s called Stony Lonesome Ranch-
Joshua Rhodes: Mm-hmm ...
John Davis: for a reason. There are a lot of rocks and a lot of stones, and at one time, it would take me about 25 minutes to get from my gate entrance to the top of the ranch, ‘cause sometimes you’re only going one or two miles an hour. But after they came in and put in the turbines, hell, I timed it. It’s three and a half minutes. My gate entrance, boom, to the top. New roads. I was able to get to one end of the pasture to the other, and that was a big help. So that’s been positive. It’s been frustrating. You hear others say, “Well, these turbines, they’re so loud and they kill your birds, and you can’t hear yourself talk.” And that’s a bunch of bull. And I’ve not seen one dead buzzard or one dead dove or those Spanish eagles, Mexican eagles, not one dead bird. And it’s just a lie and disinformation. The hunters, it hasn’t affected all the hunters. It just- it blends in. They do well. That doesn’t hurt our hunting income, hunting lease. On the contracts, you know, do some indemnities and stuff like that. So funny, during the summer, July, August, September, those big old turbines would cast a shadow, and you will literally see the sheep- laying, following like a sundial, following the shade- ... of those turbines or at the base of the turbines. Hasn’t hurt at all. It hasn’t hurt the environment or the birds. You can’t even hear them. It’s just a slight humming sound. You know, they blend in. I think they look angelic, uh, Dr. Rhodes. I think it’s just the way those big beautiful white wings and I think, I thought they were angels at one time.
Joshua Rhodes: Oh, that’s great. You got some goats, got some sheep, got some cattle. But you come from a long line of, like, sheep farmers though, right? You told me a story one time that you were descendant, you’re a descendant from Texas sheep royalty. Is that right?
John Davis: Dr. Rhodes, you shouldn’t have brought that up. I used to be chairman of the Economic and Small Business Committee there in the Texas House under Speaker Straus, and in my committee I would be up there and I’d have someone come testify, but when they got up there I said, “Please, if you don’t mind, don’t make eye contact with me. Please keep your eyes low because I come from royalty.” Johanna Wilhelm, my great-great-grandmother. If you Google it, Sheep Queen of Texas is Johanna Wilhelm. So I have blue blood running through these veins of mine. And so I asked them, “Please don’t make eye contact,” and they usually went along with me, you know? So thank you for bringing that up. I was trying to show some humility. I didn’t want to talk about it, but I do appreciate you mentioning that.
Joshua Rhodes: No worries. I imagine that was a pretty fun thing to say to somebody in the middle of a committee hearing.
John Davis: You gotta have some fun. You can’t take yourself too serious, Dr. Rhodes. Oh, yeah. You gotta be able to laugh at yourself and have some fun with it.
Joshua Rhodes: Oh, no doubt. And you know, I’ve heard other folks say the same things in terms of seeing, you know, wind turbines or solar farm, like kind of a drought-proof crop. Like, you know, you get paid whether it rains or not, or, you know, whatever the price of beef or egg or lamb is. I think it works out pretty well. But some rural communities often have kinda mixed feelings about energy projects. Like, did you get any reactions from neighbors around you when, like, the wind farms started coming into your area?
John Davis: A lot of my neighbors are my family. They’re some kinfolks because Johanna, she had at one time like 35,000 acres. So the only reaction I had was my aunt... So Concho County did the project and that’s where the abatement came forth. That’s where they... Also our ranch is in Menard County, and my aunt’s in Menard County and she saw those wind turbines, so she called me up, said, “John, how do I get some of them?” I said, “Well, I don’t know, Aunt Lou. They have to approach you on that.” So the only thing we’ve had is people wanna know how they can get some of that royalty income. ‘Cause ranches are further apart, spread apart, but I think if you get into more of the urban areas or more retirement communities, there could be more of a issues. You know, some developers may start considering making it kind of community Those that are a larger areas, the landowner w- has the tur- this is just an idea I’ve, I’ve heard, I thought it made sense. If you have your turbines, then maybe those that are visible within distance, maybe the community, they participate too in some of the income. You know, they can have some. And they see it, they may not like the look of it, but if they’re getting a little money from it, they may not complain or won’t see it, it doesn’t look as bad if it’s paying them some money too. So that’s one idea as you get closer to more-
Joshua Rhodes: Yeah, no, absolutely. And I think before we hit record on this podcast, we were talking about how we’re both multi-generation Texan, but we actually met in Australia. Like, we met in Queensland, Australia, ‘cause some folks down there brought us down to talk about how we do things in Texas, and that was one of the big differences between how things are done here versus how they’re done in some other areas, is a lot of that income, whether that’s tax income, other things like that, it kinda stays local. It doesn’t first go to the state and then get, like, distributed back, and that’s a historical artifact of kind of a post-Civil War type how we set up, like, the Texas state constitution that we’re under today. You brought up a good point about, like, folks in, like, more rural, I mean, more suburban areas. And so what do people in cities or kind of in these more suburban areas, if they’re anti-development or whatever, what do they misunderstand about how rural landowners think about their land and property rights?
John Davis: I think most people in suburbia support the idea of renewable power. I think they like the idea of it. I think where it gets to be a political issue, I think that’s where the issue comes in. I think most people agree that if God gave us wind and sun, use it and harvest it and do that. So most of those in suburbia, I think, I don’t think have a problem with it. It becomes political, and that’s kind of where my frustration is, and it may be because of the oil and gas industry. Back in when I was in legislature in, in I think 2001 we passed it. I came in in 1999. In 2001, we set certain, like 10%. I think Bush started it, then Rick Perry kind of finished it. We’re gonna set some goals of 10% to be renewable power.
Joshua Rhodes: Mm-hmm.
John Davis: That time we didn’t have any, and now it’s gotten to where it could be 40, 50% during the heat of the summer that it’s coming from. Of course, most of it’s natural gas, but at, at times it shifts to where it could be 45 to 55% of solar panels or wind. Uh-
Joshua Rhodes: Right ...
John Davis: hey, that’s cool. That’s keeping the electric bills down for everybody because it’s taking advantage of the sun, and it’s set up, and it’s free money. I mean, it’s free energy. It’s set up, the infrastructure’s there, so that’s keeping everybody mama happy in suburban- Hmm ... Houston or Clear Lake or whatever community in San. It’s keeping their bills down, Dr. Rhodes, because that’s renewable. It’s already there. Let it... It’s paying dividends. Why would we want to undermine that?
Joshua Rhodes: Right.
John Davis: Reason why we wanna undermine it, I think some of those in the oil and gas industry are feeling threatened, that maybe, oh, we’re not gonna be able to use enough natural gas. Oh, we can’t do that. Well, hell, make that LNG. Let’s ship it over to Ukraine. Uh, you know, make it compressed. There are plenty of uses for it, but if we can diversify, split it out. Suburbia, they don’t have a problem with it. It’s political when it becomes politicized, and you get the groups, the Michael Quinn Sullivan groups, people that are doing the work for Tim Dunn and Wilks Brothers and oil and gas, and they’re being their lackeys, and they’re doing their bidding. They make it political because it goes to Republican primary politics. They can get that two or 3%, and they got ya. But for real, it’s a lifeline for us because it is economic development, and it’s keeping the electric bills down for Texans. It’s mind-blowing that my conservatives aren’t supporting this or not encouraging it or helping ranchers and rural Texans, and I’m just disappointed, and I don’t get it. Anyway, so
Joshua Rhodes: Well, fair enough. So speaking of like some of the folks that are in Austin or that are in, you know, power now, like-
John Davis: Before you get to Austin, but back to Queensland, when we were there to do that trip, what made... Of course, whenever we were there, we said, “If you closed your eyes and opened it up, you thought you were in Midland, Texas.”
Joshua Rhodes: Right.
John Davis: But except for white-tailed deer, we’re hear- a bunch of kangaroos jumping around. But what made sense to us is most of the population in Australia, 90% is along the coastline. So once you go into the park, the land, it’s all s- desert and sun and wind, that it makes sense for them, and I think they were seeing that, that you can put solar panels when there, and then you just ship it, you just pop it up with the cables over to the urban areas where the population is, and then they have a continuous source of power that’s generated from the rural communities. And I think that’s what we saw, and that’s the same thing that we’re seeing in our West Texas. So it, a lot of similarities there. So I just wanna get that in on our trip to Australia and the Queensland, how that makes a lot of sense that the rural can produce the power and it can be transmitted through transmission lines or cable, whatever, to where the populations are. It’s cheap, cheap form of energy.
Joshua Rhodes: Right. That was definitely one of the takeaways is that Queensland’s kinda like the Texas of Australia, it felt like, in terms of, you know, where the people were, where the resource was, the outbacks. I always had this like mythical idea of what the outback in Australia was. Basically just West Texas with kangaroos as far as I can tell. I mean, it’s just like not too much different. But I mean, they’re trying to build infrastructure, and they were bringing us down there to think about how we might be able to build it or how they might be able to do it like us. I mean, right now, Texas also needs to build some more infrastructure. I mean, since then we’re building some bigger transmission lines. There’s these AI data centers and like other types of things going on. I mean, if we need to build like a bunch of infrastructure to, you know, keep the Texas miracle, the economy going, you know, that you’re a part of shepherding a while back, like what lessons, you know, should policymakers that are in Austin right now, what lessons should they be taking from folks like you that are, you know, actually hosting this infrastructure?
John Davis: You know what? I’m not sure if we were being recorded earlier, but I was listening to Stuart Varney and China.
Joshua Rhodes: Mm-hmm.
John Davis: The threat from China and talking about AI. And kind of the key in order to AI, that’s the future for our children and our grandchildren. If we let China take over that, we’re in trouble From my understanding, data centers is part of the AI, is part of processing that, and that you have to have data centers and you have to have the space to build them and generate and develop your economy, not only for free America, for the free world. And rural West Texas has a unique opportunity to develop data centers that are power then comes behind the meter, not off ERCOT or off the grid, where you have a Google or a whoever that they’re developing these data centers provide their own power, and that’s jobs for rural West Texas and income and economic development and jobs, and we’re diversified and it makes a lot of sense. And another thing, dealing even with wind and solar panels, but also batteries. This whole battery storage system makes so much sense, Dr. Rhodes. And one thing I’ve always believed about one of the data centers or they’re working with the cities, maybe it’s Amarillo or I can’t remember where, but if we ever have ERCOT has a shutdown or you- something goes off and let’s say Google has a data center in Amarillo, and then all of a sudden a freeze comes through or a major shutdown, then you work agreements where they shut down for their data centers, switch it back to their power grid in Amarillo, then boom, Amarillo’s got power.
Joshua Rhodes: Yeah.
John Davis: And all these smaller communities should be able to... Like here in Menard, Texas, they were trying to put in this little small battery storage system, and that’s something that made sense. All right, put in this BESS, and let’s say Eden or Brady, they all go down, but all of a sudden we have a battery s- storage here in Menard, then flip the switch and boom, power is for Menard community. Those are kind of relationships I think they can get to, and it becomes a backup, it’s decentralized, and it just Again, it makes a lot of sense. Those are things that the policymakers need to be pushing in session, is encouraging development in rural West Texas. Because it’s not only rural economic development. Heck, it’s for our future, for our battle against China and Russia and, oh, bad players, that we have a chance to get a lot of winds by being proactive in doing that. So hopefully some cooler minds will prevail, but again, goes back to politics, goes back to primary elections, go back to that 2 or 3% who vote in the primary.
Joshua Rhodes: Yeah.
John Davis: And that’s the world that they’re trying to control. So anyway, that’s my little spiel.
Joshua Rhodes: John Davis, you’re a politician. I mean, I’d be shocked if you didn’t have something to say about just about anything. Speaking on, on that, so, I mean, you’ve been a politician in Texas. You’re a recovering politician perhaps. I mean, but did your views change at all, like, after you left the State House and kinda got more... You left the State House in 2015. You got approached in 2016, if I remember correctly, for the wind. So did your views change at all from when you were in the State House from when you, you know, were mostly coming at this as a landowner?
John Davis: No. No, absolutely not. I mean, the legislation, of course, I think it was 2001 when Perry signed it, or I guess it was Bush, but it would’ve happened. But it takes a while for that infrastructure. Then the CREZ line was being built too, Dr. Rhodes, if you remember.
Joshua Rhodes: Hmm.
John Davis: That CREZ line was coming through. There wasn’t a whole lot of activity. Again, that was my first term and second term. I mean, I’m a roofing contractor, I’m the legislature, and I really didn’t totally understand that, but it was what my party, Republicans, conservatives were supporting and pushing was renewable power. Democrats think they’re progressive, but we are. I mean, we’re conservatives, and what’s more conservative is using wind and sun that God gave us and use that. But I think it was unanimous. Maybe one person voted against it. I can’t remember, but everyone supported it. Democrats, Republicans, conservatives, liberals. It just makes sense. Then they approached us in 2016. That’s about the time I was getting out But we are, hey, someone approached us, great. I mean, if oil and gas came and approached us, yeah, I’ll take it too. I got no problem with... I love oil and gas. I’ll take that. I’ll take oil. I can be bought. It just oil and gas, but we just happened to strike wind, Dr. Rhodes, and it just came gushing out. So when that wind-- I say, “Turn, baby, turn.” Now you saw me in Australia, I had my hand was turning like that windmill, and I was... politician juices were flowing. I said, “Turn, baby, turn, and put that money in my back ass pocket.” We gotta laugh at all the Aussies, but it’s true, you know? If drill, baby, drill, I’ll take that too. But if we got some wind, don’t shoot us down. I mean, that’s private property rights. It’s our land. It’s mine. It’s a way to get grit, to use the land to support your family, support your next generation. Don’t take away what I can use for my private property to sustain my family and to keep the ranch in our family and our heritage. Don’t try to take that away from us or denigrate it because it’s a good diversification. I mean, it’s providing so many winds. Again, lower electricity bill for everybody. It’s just massive benefits. Anyway, the diversification is critical.
Joshua Rhodes: That makes a lot of sense. You know, you brought it up earlier, it does kind of boggle the mind right now that we’re in such a race to power these data centers to try to win the AI race, and they’re stopping new wind farms and things like that getting built in Texas using the FAA to, you know, hold up approvals for things like that. But I mean, I... the math doesn’t add up. You know, it doesn’t add up to me. We want more energy, but then we’re gonna, you know, stop this one particular form of energy that happens to be, heck, it’s one of the easiest ones to build right now, or it has been.
John Davis: And Dr. Rhodes, I’m not sure if I’m talking over you, but it just keeps on giving. Every day, the wind blows, the sun shines. It’s a gift that keeps on giving. Once that infrastructure’s there, it’s not a either/or, it’s all of the above. They all can work in unison. They all can work together. But it’s a gift that just keeps on giving. It should be able to work hand in hand. But again, it’s where you’re getting politics involved, and you get this certain groups that just wanna denigrate something. You know, give me a break. But if you’re gonna compete with China, by gosh, we better get moving on it, ‘cause it’s serious.
Joshua Rhodes: Yeah. And you can tell me if I get this right. Sometimes my read on where kind of the political lines around, uh, particularly renewables in Texas fall is like, if you’re out there trying to actually make money off of the land, like you’re trying to raise crops or raise livestock or other things, like if you’re trying to actually make money off of the land as your primary source of revenue, like is it just a different- revenue stream. Like it’s just a diversification of that. But if like, if you’ve bought land just because you wanna look at it and you’re not necessarily trying to make a living off of it, I don’t know. Does that seem right to you?
John Davis: Sure. That-- As Texas, what, we’re gonna be 50 million in 20 years or so, or more and more people wanna find, buy their little ranch out in their chateau or whatever out in the countryside and will do that, and they’ve made a lot of money, and they’ve done well. Good for them. Bring ‘em on. And that’s a good thing. That’s economic development for these smaller rural communities that do work remote. More people can get online and do it. That’s fine But also remember to produce that lamb chop or that wagyu steak or that cabrito, you need land to do that. You need ranchers to produce that. We don’t wanna all become entertainment industry where all we got a bunch of deer hunters on the land riding around in four-wheelers shooting hogs and having fun and hooping and hollering. That’s great, but there are some of us that are trying to be producers to provide that food so they can sit down and have that lamb chop or that rib eye. It comes from a ranch. In order to have it come from a ranch, you need to have income, and something that’s sustainable, which is what wind and solar or batteries or, heck, geothermal. That’s a new thing too, geothermal. If it’s nuclear, if it’s coal, I don’t care. But these are, these are sustainable by geothermals and some of y- the wind and sun and... That way we can keep producing. We’ll have deer hunters come out, they, we get their money, that’s great, and some people buy little, little ranchettes, 50 acres, 100 acres, and they get their four-wheeler and zip around and that’s fine, but don’t be complaining about wind or solar because that is what allows us to keep doing it, to diversify. And that, it’s so important to understand that. As my pappy said, but Jane likes to take credit for it, it didn’t just happen to get that steak on the table. It takes having an operation, and that wind, that renewable power helps part of the equation to allow us to keep being producers.
Joshua Rhodes: No, that makes sense. That’s the second time you said, you know, about deer hunters coming out there and, you know, paying lease fees. Are you telling me I didn’t... Do I owe you some money for getting that axis deer last year? Oh,
John Davis: no, sir. No, no, no, no. You got a special deal with me, Dr. Rhodes. No, sir-ree.
Joshua Rhodes: That’s right.
John Davis: No, you got a special deal. I also have some red stag now, Dr. Rhodes. Red stag.
Joshua Rhodes: Okay.
John Davis: Red stag and axis are the best of the best, so you gotta bring your little child out there to go hunting with us, and then get a little red stag doe or something.
Joshua Rhodes: Absolutely. I, I will definitely take you up again on that again. And speaking of kids, when you think about your grandchildren, future generations, those that’ll steward the land, you know, after you, like what role do you think the infrastructure you have and maybe other energy infrastructure will play in keeping your ranch going?
John Davis: I’m gonna answer that question, but I’m gonna also tell you another story, if you don’t mind.
Joshua Rhodes: All right.
John Davis: But I think for future generations, it just makes sense. I think it’s in place, Dr. Rhodes, and the only thing that can change is the efficiency of those General Electric turbines that are turning, or the solar panels are more efficient and bring in the wind. The land’s there, it’ll keep growing. But when you mentioned future generations, it reminded me of something, and if it’s okay, I’m gonna s- tell a quick story. Elon Musk came to my office whenever I was chairman of the Economic Small Business Committee, ‘cause we were passing a SpaceX bill, I th- one that came through my committee, I think I actually carried it. So he came to my office- This was a 2013. Came there and we sat down, we visited, and as we were, uh, talking, he was telling me his favorite... I don’t know how the conversation come up, but his fa- “My favorite cartoon as a kid was The Jetsons.” Hmm. He thought The Jetsons cartoon, as a matter, was the coolest thing, ‘cause they’re all zipping. Remember, they’re all in these little-
Joshua Rhodes: Oh, yeah ...
John Davis: automobiles and they’re here, here, they’re zipping everywhere. And it kind of brought me back to where I am. I’m 65, and I know that he’s producing these cars. You can get in that car and there’s no driver, and it takes you wherever you wanna go. It, it’s programmed. What I’m looking at doing, I don’t have an EV, but I’m looking at, I might get one, put it there at my house in Georgetown Have it to where I can just go in with a level two, plug it in at night. But I’m gonna have as I’m getting older and you can’t get around, why not get one of those little jets and cars, little EVs that he dreamt about, and it’s come to fruition. You hop in that car, there’s no driver. I wanna go, take me to H-E-B. All right, I’m ready to go to the ranch, two-hour drive, take me to the ranch, get to the ranch, get in my truck, and do my thing. I can see it as I’m getting 75, 85, maybe 90, jump in that little Jetson electric v- and take me to the ranch now. I’ll just sit back and let’s go to H-E-B or take me to First Baptist Georgetown and then do some worship in there. But you get in, it takes you there, and it brings you back, and you plug it in, and then you do the same, you repeat, just keep doing it over. I’m seeing that as I’m getting older, that maybe in the next few years I may go and get one of those self-driving vehicles that you just get in and it takes you where you wanna go. As I get older, as you age in place, there’s no reason why I can’t stay at home as long as I can and have that little EV. I just jump in it, it knows me and takes me where I wanna go. And you see them on these, was it Waymos in Austin, these cars driving around without... But I’ve heard that they’re doing it now where these Teslas... So that’s what I’m looking doing. I’m gonna try to get one maybe in the next few years and just try it out and say, “Jump in there and take me to Pecan Spring Ranch.” And it keeps giving you independence for the elderly as we age. And I’m thinking that makes a lot of sense, ‘cause most people, they gotta take the car keys away from dad when he’s 85, he’s dangerous or gonna kill somebody, he’s driving too slow on the road. Well, don’t take the keys away from him. Get him an EV and just jump in and go. And that’s what I think the future is, and that’s when I’m trying to fulfill Elon Musk, you know, his dream as a kid watching The Jetsons, and I’m gonna do that in Georgetown, Texas. Jump in my little Tesla, whatever it is, I’m not sure what they’re called, but jump in that and go. And I may have gotten sidetracked on that, Dr. Rhodes, but when you said the next generation, that made me think about, like, I had to take the keys away from my dad, you know, when he was 9-- 88. Well, it’s hard. You don’t have that independence anymore. It’s gone. But if you have a little EV, you jump in it, it takes you to wherever you wanna go, and you still have your independence. You live at home, you age in place, and that’s a positive, good thing for that. Anyway, so I’m gonna do that in honor of Elon Musk, get my little Jetson automobile. It may look like a flying saucer, I don’t know, but I’ll be zipping around Georgetown, say, “There he goes.” Or I’ll be on the road to the Pecan Spring Ranch. Who’s that crazy man in that driverless car? Well, that’s John Davis
Joshua Rhodes: I tell you, there’s plenty of them driving around my neighborhood. I think they use some of the part of town I live in to train some of those, so if you wanna come get a close-eye view of one, we can. Maybe Elon will let you get in one of them rockets too one day while we’re at it.
John Davis: Yeah. Yeah. I think I wanna stay at the ranch.
Joshua Rhodes: Okay. Maybe. We’ll see.
John Davis: I’m gonna stay at the ranch. I’ll watch them go up in the stars, but I’m gonna stay at PSR.
Joshua Rhodes: Oh, fair enough. Fair enough. Keeps, uh, keep your feet grounded. I mean, but in Menard, didn’t you put in an EV charging station at the Menard station? Am I remembering that?
John Davis: I sure did. And that’s another thing, if you don’t mind me just dropping on, adding to that. By me having the wind and that extra income has provided me a little bit of discretional income to where I’ve done a little economic development in Menard. It’s two acres, an old Exxon gas station. We pulled out three of those gas tanks. This has been a three-and-a-half-year project, and the first thing my daughter-in-law says, “Papa Jed,” after I bought it, “this needs to be an EV charging station.” I said, “You know, hell, I never thought about that.” So after three and a half years, and one of the last things we put in was an EV charging station. So I have one there. It’s a Liberty Plug out of New York, and I talked to the manager in San Saba. They have one in San Saba, but there’s the guy, and his name was Denver. But then the Denver said his mentor’s been a guy out of, uh, Fredericksburg. They have three or four of them. So I called him and he said, “John, you gotta go with Liberty Plugs.” And so he gave me their contact. I called them. So they sold me their latest and greatest. So I have... It’s a level two, two plug, two chargers. I was at the station this morning, there was a lady driving through in her Mustang, and she was charging it up.
Joshua Rhodes: Hmm.
John Davis: You know, it’s being used. She said, “I’m-- We’re trying to get to Amarillo. They only have 36 miles. I need to get some more juice.” So she’s charging up to get her to the next stop. But yes, back to my point, I’ve been able to develop the Menard station to where it’s an educational... I have some sheep there and goats there. I have peacocks, chicken, ducks. I have turtles, fish, and we have a music stage. We’re about to start a beer garden. It’s called Range Canning Company Beer Garden, where we’re gonna start that- When you were there, I don’t think the stage was built yet, Dr. Rhodes, but it’s built. We think this next couple months we’re gonna start selling Wagyu. I’m talking to Hudson’s Meat there in Austin. Hudson’s Meat. Anyway, he’s gonna make Wagyu frank hot dogs for me. So we’re making from the Wagyu beef, and we’re gonna be selling them at the beer garden. My point is, with a little extra income from the ranch, from the wind turbine gives me extra disposable income. We’ve done a two-acre development there in Menard. It’s gonna be a music station festival. We teach kids about sheep. It’s a... Laura Bush designated us as Texan By Nature. Then we’re a m- we’re a monarch way station for pollinator. I’m using a guy named Bill Neiman out of, uh, Native American Seed. They, pollinators, they did Lady Bird Park, and then Bill’s in Junction, Texas. So he came over and he personally oversaw the development of that. So it’s a white pollinator, and we got beer going. We got selling native plants. My cousin’s a native master naturalist, so she’s gonna start selling plants, and she’s gonna sell dickey-doo to Wagyu hot dogs, and we’re gonna be selling beer, and we’re gonna have live music on Friday nights and Saturday nights, and I might even have a little church service on Sunday, you know, to get some of those sinners in on a Sunday. It is a cool area, and it’s, we have a family tree there, and we sell our Wagyu beef there and our Dorper lamb there, and it’s also, um, provide free reverse osmosis water and free coffee, uh, for the community, but they give donations back. They come in and we get about four or $500 a month, and they get the water. And it’s kind of a community area, and it’s a book drop, book exchange, and all that. So it’s really pretty cool. But again, a little extra wind money gives me some money where I can give back to the Menard community, and I do have an EV charging station. So it’s been... Sell fresh farm eggs, too. They got eggs there for sale and, you know, onions, jalapenos, eg- We have a vegetable exchange table. If people have extra squ- You know, everybody has so much extra zucchini, drop off the squash. And anyway, it’s kind of a cool area. But again, the wind and all that stuff helps to make all that happen, you know?
Joshua Rhodes: No, that’s great. Hudson’s great. That’s where I took that Axis after I got it off your place.
John Davis: They do a really good jo- I like this guy. I think it was Thompson or Thomas, I think
Joshua Rhodes: Man, but I tell you, I’m gonna have to get me some of them Wagyu hot dogs. I’ve never heard anyone making Wagyu hot dog. That sounds real good
John Davis: He actually make, call it Wagyu franks. I tried one last night. It was excellent. So I’m taking my, I have like 100 pounds. He’s gonna make them into Wagyu hot dogs. And he also said we can make some bratwurst. Is that what you call it?
Joshua Rhodes: Think so.
John Davis: He’s gonna make those for me too. So we’re gonna make, have a, a German theme this stuff too, so. I gotta get you back out to the ranch, Dr. Roe.
Joshua Rhodes: Yeah, no, I’d love to come out there and see what all we’ve done. It sounds like it’s gonna be a hoot out there at the station. So one final question, kind of wrap it up. I mean, you know, you’ve seen Texas from the capital to the ranch. What do you wish more Texans understood about, you know, the people whose land hosts the infrastructure that powers the state and the economic miracle that it is?
John Davis: We take care of our land.
Joshua Rhodes: Yeah.
John Davis: We’re environmentalists. We protect our land. We wanna protect the li- just this morning, I’m at the ranch, I see some bob-whites, and I see about 10 little baby little quail just running around. We wanna protect them. We wanna protect our environment, and I just hate this perception that, well, you’re the Green New Deal. You’re like AOC. You know? That’s all you are, an environmentalist, you know? So I kind of joke around. I had this PhD student from Berkeley who was, came out to visit the ranch to see a wind turbine, and I had her hug a wind turbine. So there you go, hug a turbine. But it’s not AOC. It’s not the Green New Deal. It’s conservative. It’s smart. There are multiple winds, no pun intended, but it’s wind, wind. There are multiple on all facets for the ranch, the landowner. It helps the community. It helps the education system. It provides tax dollars back to the county, and the counties won’t... They should have a, give an abatement because they can have a say-so on what happens to, either it be wind or be it solar or battery or they give a little bit of money, they’re at the table. They can control these projects, and it becomes good for the community. It becomes build roads, build your, your potholes, but it’s just the perception, and it’s the Green New Deal. It’s AOC. Well, it’s not. It’s John Davis, West Texas conservative, landowner, steward of the land, strong property rights, so I can keep being a producer to help, one, feed America, one, provide national defense, diversification, develop AI, encourage these things which helps- Us keep growing as a state, and we’re always very proactive in Texas. We’re always looking for new innovations. We’re not sticking our head in the sand. It was Republicans who came up with conservatives. Speaker Laney was a Democrat there, and George Bush was there too, and then you had Perry and Laney, and we have Tom Craddick has been supportive of it. It’s all, it’s a bipartisan thing. It’s not energy and good clean energy and renewable power. It shouldn’t be polarizing. It’s- should be unifying. But again, primary politics, I’m just really disappointed in my party being so denigrating of... You can still raise your sheep underneath them. You can still run cows. You can still deer hunt. It doesn’t affect it. It just gives us another source of income, and I just wish my party would stop. But again, it’s the moneyed interests. Nothing’s different. It’s Hunt, be the Hunts or whoever, but it’s the Wilks brothers and it’s Tim Dunn, and they just wanna be kingmakers. They’re in the Republican primary politics, and they’re just have bought a lot of lackeys that would just follow along and say, “Okay.” Because I guess their fear, oh, we’re gonna use too much wind, and we’re not gonna have enough for our natural gas. Well, hell, there’s a lot of people want our natural gas. We have ships coming now from, what, the s- Hormuz Straits shut down, so we got ships, containers coming to America. So let’s keep growing, but don’t shut out rural Texas, and don’t denigrate us. We’re just trying to be a part of the solution and be innovative and creative. I’m not sure if I answered your question. I start rambling, Dr. Rhodes, and sometimes you can’t shut me up, you know?
Joshua Rhodes: That works just fine. And actually, that’s a great place to kind of end there. So John Davis, thank you for coming on The Energy Capital Podcast.
John Davis: Honored to be here, and I hope you’ll invite me back.
Joshua Rhodes: Absolutely.
